Meanwhile in Poland …
Zydrunas Savickas gets a new Log Press World Record.
227kg (500 lbs) lifted at the Giants Live meet in Poland.
Best of Olympic Weightlifting
Best of Olympic Weightlifting
Meanwhile in Poland …
Zydrunas Savickas gets a new Log Press World Record.
227kg (500 lbs) lifted at the Giants Live meet in Poland.
Zydrunas is the best, really.
But the lockout was incomplete and the lift should not have been given.
Strongman is in urgent need of stricter judging. Unfortunately, the sport depends too much on TV and sponsor money. “Freaks” (with all due respect to Strongman athletes) and records make TV-share go up, so…
Down signal seemed crazy fast compared to Oly lifting, but I’d have to say that this is pretty normal for all of Big Z (or anyone else’s) records, is it not? They seem to consistently give fast down signals
Yeah it’s not the same as Oly lifting, you just have to lift the weight, it doesn’t seem like you have to show a heap of control at the top… He locked the lift out so I have no problem with it but I can see why people wouldn’t be happy with it
Lax judging is pretty normal indeed. Which doesn’t make it right. For a TV show it’s acceptable, but if the sport aspires to grow beyond that, much stricter judging (and maybe some event standardization) will have to be employed.
Z is the man nonetheless.
My argument is that as long as judging is clear and consistent, it
doesn’t really matter. It doesn’t really make sense to apply judging
rules from one lift to another (CJ to log press).
For example,
would you say weightlifting has lax judging because double bounces on
clean recovery are allowed? Doing the exact same thing in powerlifting,
even in the most lax federation possible, would result in 3 redlights.
Double bouncing out of the hole on squats is cheating–plain and simple.
But that’s just in PL. A very similar double bounce in WLing doesn’t
result in a penalty.
Now a CJ and Log C and P aren’t that
similar–but look at strongman deadlifts. They are allowed to use
straps, hitch the weight, etc. Is that bad? I don’t necessarily think
so. As long as it’s consistent, I do see any reason that a strongman
lift should conform to the standards of weightlifting and powerlifting.
Now I agree, if judging becomes inconsistent, then we do have a problem.
Lax but consistent judging ensures that all competitors are treated the same way. Its impact on the quality of the lift or of the sport in general is a different matter.
I fully agree that it doesn’t make sense to mindlessly apply judging standards from one strength sport to another. Variety is good. But strength sports can and should learn from one another: some rules from sport A could be good additions to sport B’s ruleset.
Grosso modo, there are two types of rules in any given lift: “common sense” rules (let’s say type I) and “subjective” rules (let’s say type II). Type I is for the obvious things like finishing a deadlift at full extension instead of halfway while shaking uncontrollably. Type II are related to the specific interpretation of the lift within the context of a particular sport. Examples of type II would be: the use of continental cleans in strongman; hitching deadlifts in strongman; the double bouncing example you provided; the no press-out rule for the jerk; etc…
My point is that the need for a clear, unequivocal lockout is a type I rule for any kind of press in any kind of strength sport. It is a basic indicator of the quality of the lift. It’s not about applying Weightlifting or Powerlifting standards, just about a basic rigour threshold.
Thanks for the debate!
I can agree with that somewhat. I do think that it is important for lifts not to be passed that might look like a failed lift to your average viewer. Like you said, a convincing lock out is one of the most basic things that signifies to an audience, “Hey, that guy lifted the weight successfully!” In view of that, it probably would be a good idea to have a little more strict of a lockout required for log press, but if there’s one thing I’ve noticed, it’s that it’s very easy to relax standards within in a sport. Tightening them back up is extremely difficult. Competitors tend to dislike it, and audiences like to see records broken.
Thank goodness the judging IS NOT as strict as Olympic lifting otherwise there’d be no interest and no money in it as is the case with Olympic lifting….There’s a reason why,although ‘strongman’ In this format, has been around for next to no time compared to Olympic lifting and has produced at least one MILLIONAIRE (Pudzianowski) even though it isn’t even a publicly approved sport,let alone an Olympic one.
As one reasonably astute commenter wrote previously….People always have and always will want to see freaks,not be bored shitless watching 100 year old,crusty,stuffy anally retented judges turning down lifts for reasons unknown.
(I have competed and trained in both Weightlifting and Strongman)
Weightlifting is a much, much bigger sport than Strongman. Interest is growing again due to a multitude of factors (current state of powerlifting, X-fit, socio-political context, etc…), while a plausible case could be made that Strongman is declining.
I assume you have not had much contact with top-level Weightlifting judges. Most are far from anally-retended old farts. They are passionate about the sport, keen on sharing their time and knowledge, and can analyze a 2-second lift LIVE and come up with a set of pointers that would take the untrained eye several hours of video analysis just to understand.
They do make mistakes, of course, and they do sucumb to pressure. But 95% of the time they are dead right. It may appear that they turn down lifts “for reasons unknown”, and that’s exactly what happens: you do not know the reasons because you do not know the rules and your eyes are not as fast as their’s. So the reasons remain unknown to you. But it does not mean that there aren’t any.
There is much more to sport than the ability to produce millionaires or increase TV-share. Not everything is about the money. When we speak of Alekseev, Rigert, Reding, Suleymano-v/glu, Reza Zadeh and the like – and we will be speaking about them several years from now – we are not thinking about their cars, mansions or investment portfolio.
It is also wrong to assume that judging must be lax and the whole thing be turned into a circus for interest and money to come in. There are several well-established sports with strict judging and great popularity at the same time. While on the other side we all saw what happened with the quadruple-ply powerlifting circus feds and their obsession with big numbers at the expense of rule coherence.
Luckily, there are plenty of options if you are bored shitless watching a Weightlifting or Powerlifting competition. I may recommend “The Jerry Springer Show” or one of the many readily-available soap operas.
“Weightlifting is much bigger than Strongman”….So where’s your evidence for that statement?…You should have said “I would like to imagine Weightlifting is bigger than Strongman”. Bigger meaning more lucrative and popular with John Q. Public.You mention that we will be talking about the Eastern luminaries like Alekseev,Rigert etc in years to come,which is true,we will,as they were true greats,but my point is that we will also be talking about Savickas,Pudzianowski and Kaz in Strongman.
Also it must be pointed out that the lifters you mentioned ( eastern bloc athletes only,of course) have had social privileges,property and cars etc given to them by the communist state,not from market forces and demand.So this proves that as far as generating commerce,weightlifting is sadly lacking and this is through its boring and over specialised format not to mention that the sport is run by backwards thinking dinosaurs.
Can you please tell us all that if Weightlifting is bigger than Strongman,then why is it only on T.V. very infrequently and even in the Olympics,is only given cursory attention?…Also can you name me ONE Olympic lifter that’s a MILLIONAIRE from his sport?
Just recently Savickas won $60,000 and a brand new Hummer (one of several from this contest alone),i for one,cannot ever remember any Western Weightlifter winning anything more than tin cup and a round of applause from a smattering of spectators.
Using your logic I could very well say that Strongman is more popular and lucrative than baseball.
C’mon dude,move into the real world.
Again, not everything is about the money. Bigger does not necessarily mean more lucrative. You can argue that this kind of Western logic is the one accurately depicting the real world, I can differ and present arguments, but let us not go down the road of politics.
Weightlifting has more than 150 member federations and the number of registered athletes is at the very least in the tens or even hundreds of thousands. The sport is unified under one single federative body (IWF), possessing a thorough structure which a simple glance at IWF’s website will reveal.
How many registered athletes and national federations does Strongman have? How many world governing bodies? With what kind of structure, reach and policies?
It is not event worth the effort of comparing.
Your John Q. is probably a native English speaker “illuminated” by the concept of “sports entertainment”. Strongman interest in countries like China, Iran, Russia, South American Countries, and so on, is small when compared to interest in Weightlifting or even Powerlifting.
I did not mention Eastern-Bloc athletes only, but I agree that Weightlifting lacks at generating commerce. All of strength sports, being minority sports, do lack at this indicator. I do not see this ever changing: the world is always going to be much more about football and pop music than strength and heavy metal.
But weightlifting does not lack at generating commerce because it is boring, overly specialized, and run by “backwards-thinking dinosaurs”. That is your opinion, and a biased one at that, as one can infer from your choice of adjectives. Again, I assume you do not have much contact with top weightlifting coaches, athletes or executives. You would find them anything but boring dinosaurs.
Speaking of generating commerce, I would like to hear your thoughts on how Strongman is so much better at that than Weightlifting. We could start by comparing bumper plate and barbell sales to strongman kit sales.
Weightlifting is given cursory attention at the Olympics because it is a “minority” sport and the TV/commercial interest is just not there, not because of some inherent problem. Big competitions in Weightlifting are few and far between, and that partly explains its weak TV presence. Strongman on the other hand follows a different format, which is perfectly fine, but we should remember that it is a young sport and that typically things change as the sport grows (and I do not see strongman growing much more under the current paradigm): the number of competitions increases and the big guns (Savickas et al) specialize in 1 or 2 big comps a year. And when/if that happens, you’re not gonna have Strongman 24/7 on TV like you have football. The TV guys will choose the 1 or 2 big comps the big guns show up in and it’s going to be just like Weightlifting is now.
That said, high-profile Weighlifting competitions should indeed increase in number. It would draw in more people.
There are weightlifters who are very well in life (Pisarenko to name just one), but these people typically do well because they put their contacts and experience to use, not because of the money they amassed directly from the sport. I agree of course that there needs to be more money and more opportunities in WL, but I stand by my point that the greatness of a sport is not about generating millionaires.
And Savickas, by the way, is from an Eastern-European country and won the things you mention because he is the best at what he does. Most (not all) Western Weightlifters aren’t even competitive by world standards, and that’s why they haven’t won anything. Let them bring up their game and we will see if it’s only about tin cups.
If you think my logic holds that Strongman is more popular and lucrative than baseball…it’s you in need of moving into the real world.
You seem to applying your own material values to the “real world” and how it relates to the reality of weightlifting popularity and coming out way off the mark.
Like ive said before,whether we like it or not,the world at large ONLY recognises a sports “value” by “bums on seats” and consequently the MONEY it attracts/makes,this is not to my liking either but its a cold,hard fact.
This is the reason neither strongman or weightlifting is hardly ever on the breakfast TV news or late night news,except when someone tests positive for a banned substance or dies unexpectedly etc.
In my opinion,weightlifting is a spectacularly technical sport,the training for which needs to be started at a rather young age,as the eastern bloc countries do with their potential champions,the problem is that the west does not hold it in high enough esteem to rigorously fund it the same way the east does….Why is that?,its maybe because the ‘masses’ would rather watch simple but easy to relate to sports like running or throwing something.
In this aspect,the sport of strongman can appeal to the drunken pleb that understands how much a beer keg weighs or how hard it is to lift the car he might have parked outside,in essence,weightlifting is a very specialised sport that needs a good understanding of how difficult it is to actually do a clean & jerk or snatch,as well as the rules and reasons for disqualification of lifts etc.
Most of the general populous do their best to avoid barbells even when they haul their lazy arses off to the gym,preffering machines and other assorted nonsense.
I simply cannot see weightlifting getting more lucrative because its far too difficult to perform and to comprehend ( for the masses),whereas strongman is simpler because,as we all should know,if a sport is simple,fast and noisy,the plebs will love it.
Dude, what are you talking about?!? Weightlifting is way bigger than Strongman… Strongman is a side show, Weightlifting is an Olympic sport… And it is becoming even bigger in western countries (which is all that matters apparently) thanks to CrossFit… And speaking of money, Chinese athletes get 2 million dollars for Gold medals and Klokov is charging $1700 an hour for his seminars being held all around the world… Strongmans golden age has come and gone whereas Weightlifting is going through a massive resurgence… And “bums on seat”? Did you see the crowd the last WSM competition pulled?? There was maybe 100 people spectating… Compare that to this years world championships in Turkey… In many countries, Weightlifting is a national sport, it’s not just the US beer drinking “pleb” that decides the value of a sport
Well put. We do not have to dumb down sport in order to please the “pleb”. There’s much more to it than money alone. If they can go to school and learn to read and write they can surely understand a C&J. It’s not rocket science.
And by the way, since the US is not even close to being a major player in any of the big strength sports (WL is Eastern European and Asian turf, same for IPF PL with some good Western athletes here and there), the strength world at large is actually much, much more than the “bums on seat”, “sports-entertainment” crew.
To the two idealistic but rather confused chaps above….None of the athletes you mentioned are MILLIONAIRES,I told you that Pudzianowski IS and yet you fail to counter that argument by giving me ONE weightlifter who has attained this status financially,especially weightlifting athletes in the west.
Regarding the Chinese getting 2 million dollars,i already mentioned that EASTERN BLOC AND COMMUNIST countries are rewarding their athletes well,WESTERN LIFTERS ARE NOT REWARDED LIKE THIS,MY CONTENTION IS DIRECTED TOWARDS THE TREATMENT AND ORGANISATION OF WESTERN OLYMPIC LIFTING OBVIOUSLY ,AS WE LIVE IN THE WEST….ITS A SIMPLE ENOUGH CONCEPT TO GRASP GUYS.
Does it not occur to the pair of you that,for example,the likes of Jay Cutler and Ronnie coleman are wealthier still than any of the aforementioned athletes?
An intelligent person might ask himself how these Bodybuilding athletes achieved this,in case your having difficulty think straight today I will spell it out to you….THEY DID IT BY SELLING THEIR PRODUCT TO A WORLD WIDE AUDIENCE,as in the west that’s what we do,its called capitalism and its the only way in which great wealth is attained in ALL THE BIGGEST SPORTS LIKE GOLF,FOOTBALL,BASEBALL ETC ETC.
Money is very important to any competitive athlete,the reasons why are patently obvious and I cannot be bothered to spell it out to you.
Is this a serious argument or are you just messing with us?? Do you really judge the size of a sport based on how many millionaires compete in it? Not how many competitors there are, nor the number of countries involved or the number of fans around the world or the superstar status some of the athletes achieve in their country, but how many millionaires there are?? Seriously?? Ok I fell for it at the start, so I’ll give you that, well done, you sucked us into a crazy debate, but now I know you were just messing with us, good work trolling us
“Do you really judge a sport based on how many millionaires compete in it?”….No,i did not start out judging any sport in this manner,however,after observing the correlation between the money earned in a respective sport and the amount of mainstream TV coverage it gets,i noticed that there is a very obvious trend that suggests that the more TV exposure a sport gets then the more prize money “miraculously” is bestowed upon that sports participants by various sponsors that are clambering for their product to be associated with the sports champions.
Using this model,its patently obvious that any strength oriented sport should be focusing on how to sell their ‘product’ to the mainstream,in this regard,as I said in my very first post I believe,that Olympic lifting basically sucks balls,and the others are not far behind.
I used strongman as an example of young sport that even without Olympic recognition,as well as the steroid stigma,has still produced more additions the worlds sporting “millionaires list” than an Olympic strength event that’s been around since year dot.
How is this NOT a valid argument?
ZYDRUNAS A MONSTER . share the podium with few . a just wish he had powerlifted longer