Meanwhile in Doping News …
Following allegations by the German documentary of widespread doping the IOC kicked off a reanalysis of Beijing 2008 and London 2012 samples (for all sports).
As expected there are lots of weightlifters who got caught.
Here is how the retests for Beijing 2008 and London 2012 work.
Update 22.12.2018: Next Wave of 2012 Re-Test Positives.
- Ruslan Nurudinov (UZB) – Dehydrochloromethyltestosterone
- Oleksiy Torokhtiy (UKR) – Dehydrochloromethyltestosterone
- Meline Daluzyab (ARM) – Dehydrochloromethyltestosterone and Stanozolol
- Valentin Hristov (AZE) – Dehydrochloromethyltestosterone
- Mikalai Novikau (BLR) – Dehydrochloromethyltestosterone and Stanozolol
Update 13.01.2018: Ilya’s ban ends 10.06.2018 19 October 2018.
Via Inside the Games:
Update 23.01.2018: IWF official announcement
The violation is considered as one rather than two as Ilyin had not been notified of his first violation at Beijing before he committed the second violation in London.
Ilyin’s two-year length of ineligibility has been based on the rules applicable in 2008 and 2012 with two years being the basic sanction which could be imposed for a first violation involving “non-specified substances”.
From the IWF Announcement:
However, Ilya Ilyin remains ineligible to compete according to the “Tbilisi Decision”, until the suspension of the Kazakh Weightlifting Federation comes to end on 19 October 2018.
The Updated IWF Sanctioned Athletes List now shows:
- Ilya Ilyin ban ends 10.06.2018, but his Kazakh ban ends 19 October 2018.
- Boyanka Kostova 10.06.2018
- Zulfiya Chinshanlo 10.06.2018
- Yuliya Kalina 10.06.2018
Update 30.09.2017: Meanwhile in Budapest …
The IWF announced that today that the executive board unanimously decided that countries with produced three or more doping violations from the 2008 and 2012 retests will be suspended for one year.
Countries Affected: Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, China, Moldova, Kazakhstan, Russia, Turkey and Ukraine.
Update 05.05.2017: The Kazakh federation reports that it received the following news from the IWF (via). The IWF has released no updates so far.
Maya Maneza and Zulfiya Chinshanlo are banned for two years. Svetlana Podobedova for eight years.
Their bans retroactively start on the date when the reanalysis of took place , namely 26 May 2016. This implies that Maneza and Chinshanlo will be eligible for the 2020 Olympics in Tokyo.
They further write that:
“With the assistance of the Weightlifting Federation of Kazakhstan the athletes managed to defend all of their non-Olympic achievements, titles and awards.”
That means for example that Zulfiya Chinshanlo’s 134kg clean and jerk world record set at world championships 2014 in Almaty will still stand.
Update 13.01.2017: Khadzhimurat Akkaev’s 2012 (!) retest came back positive. (via). Remember that Akkaev didn’t get to compete in London.
This comes months after it was announced he tested positive in 2008 as well.
Update 05.10.2016: Norik Vardanyan’s tests came back positive for dehydrochlormethyltestosterone. (via)
Update 13.09.2016: Anatoli Ciricu’s (94kg, Moldova) 2012 test came back positive. (via)
Update 24.08.2016: Next Wave of 2008 positives (via)
- PASHAYEV, Nizami (AZE) – Dehydrochlormethyltestosterone, Oxandrolone, Stanozolol
- KULESHA, Iryna (BLR) – Dehydrochlormethyltestosterone
- NOVIKAVA, Nastassia (BLR) – Dehydrochlormethyltestosterone, Stanozolol
- RYBAKOU, Andrei (BLR) – Dehydrochlormethyltestosterone, Stanozolol
- CAO, Lei (CHN) – GHRP-2 (S2. Hormones and related substances)
- CHEN, Xiexia (CHN) – GHRP-2 (S2. Hormones and related substances)
- LIU, Chunhong (CHN) – Sibutramine (S6. Stimulants), GHRP-2 (S2. Hormones and related substances)
- GRABOVETSKAYA, Mariya (KAZ) – Dehydrochlormethyltestosterone, Oxandrolone, Stanozolol
- MANEZA, Maya (KAZ) – Stanozolol (S1.1 Anabolic agents)
- NEKRASSOVA, Irina (KAZ) – Stanozolol (S1.1 Anabolic agents)
- SEDOV, Vladimir (KAZ) – Stanozolol (S1.1 Anabolic agents)
- AKKAEV, Khadzhimurat (RUS) – Dehydrochlormethyltestosterone
- LAPIKOV, Dmitry (RUS) – Dehydrochlormethyltestosterone
- DAVYDOVA, Natalya (UKR) – Dehydrochlormethyltestosterone
- KOROBKA, Olha (UKR) – Dehydrochlormethyltestosterone
So with 3 Chinese positives, China is now also facing a one year country ban.
Update 29.07.2016: IWF bans Russian weightlifters from entering Rio. (via)
Update 27.07.2016: 11 more positives… (via)
- Nataliya Zabolotnaya, Svetlana Tsarukaeva, Alexandr Ivanov and Andrey Demanov, Intigam Zairov, Iryna Kulesha, Hripsime Khurshudyan, Rauli Tsirekidze, Sibel Simsek, Almas Uteshov, Cristina Iovu.
So Lydia Valentin and Christine Girard jumped into gold medal spots now. Same for Anatoli Ciricu (94kg), who is currently banned (11.05.2015 – 11.05.2023).
Update 26.07.2016: Albegov’s 2012 sample supposedly came back positve. (via)
- Russian weightlifting president Syrtsov says he has no information about this. (via)
Update 22.07.2016: IOC has announced a bunch more positives from additional retests (via).
- 30 athletes from Beijing, 15 from London
- 23 of the 30 Beijing positives come from medalists
- the 15 positives from London are from nine countries and two sports
Update 13.07.2016: More from 2008.
- Apparently Vladimir Sedov’s A sample tested positive for stanozolol. (via)
- They also found stuff in Mariya Grabovetskaya’s samples (+75kg Bronze)
Update 12.07.2016: Ilya will study sports psychology and management in England. (via)
Update 07.07.2016: 3 more positives from Beijing. (via)
- MARTIROSYAN, Tigran (ARM) / M69kg – Stanozolol, Dehydrochlormethyltestosterone
- HASANOV, Sardar (AZE) – Dehydrochlormethyltestosterone
- OZKAN, Sibel (TUR) – Stanozolol
Update 20.06.2016: IWF names the retest positives from the 2008 Beijing Olympics (via). Final decision about the consequences regarding Olympic quotas will be discussed in an IWF executive board meeting on 22-23.06.2016 in Tbilisi.
- KHURSHUDYAN, Hripsime (ARM) – Stanozolol
- DUDOGLO, Alexandru (MDA) – Stanozolol
- EVSTYUKHINA, Nadezda (RUS) – dehydrochlormethyltestosterone metabolites
- TAYLAN, Nurcan (TUR) – Stanozolol
- SHAINOVA, Marina (RUS) – Dehydrochlormethyltestosterone metabolites and stanozolol metabolites
- ZAIROV, Intigam (AZE) – Dehydrochlormethyltestosterone – Remains suspended due to previous IWF sanction until 21.12.2023
- ILYIN, Ilya (KAZ) – Stanozolol– Remains provisionally suspended
Update 15.06.2016: Official Announcements are in. (via IWF).
- Ilya Ilyin (KAZ) – Dehydrochloromethyltestosterone, Stanozolol
- Apti Aukhadov (RUS) – Dehydrochloromethyltestosterone, Drostanolone
- Boyanka Kostova (AZE) – Dehydrochloromethyltestosterone, Stanozolol
- Svetlana Podobedova (KAZ) – Stanozolol
- Dzina Sazanavets (BLR) – Drostanolone, Stanozolol
- Maryna Shkermankova (BLR) – Dehydrochloromethyltestosterone, Stanozolol
- Yuliya Kalina (UKR) – Dehydrochloromethyltestosterone
- Yauheni Zharnasek (BLR) – Dehydrochloromethytestosterone, Stanozolol, Oxandrolone
- Maiya Maneza (KAZ) – Stanozolol
- Zulfiya Chinshanlo (KAZ) – Oxandrolone, Stanozolol
Update 09.06.2016: Russian sports minister Vitaly Mutko wants to throw out retests due to B samples not confirming A sample results (via). Meanwhile the latest episode of the German documentary about Russian doping allegedly shows Mutko’s involvement in covering up a positive test from a football player. It’s also available in English.
Update 07.06.2016: TASS reports that according to Vladimir Shainov, the B samples from Marina Shainova and Nadezhda Evstyukhina have come back positive (for turinabol), they have yet to receive official papers on the penalties (via).
Update 04.06.2016: Kazakh weightlifting federation reports it has been notified about five positive samples by the national Olympic committee (via). Retesting of Kazakh samples will take place in Switzerland (via).
Update 01.06.2016: IOC announced it will extend the retesting program of samples from Beijing and London (via).
Some news sites claim they will test all samples, but that doesn’t follow from the source article from the IOC.
#pray4lu
#pray4ilya
#pray4everyone
I’m pretty sure they’re after the Russians. If Ilya gets stripped of his medals weightlifting will be a joke. I highly doubt they will ever do something to Ilya.
Except there were no Russian champions in any weight class at the 2008 or 2012 Olympics. I don’t think the IOC care how big Ilya Ilyin is to weightlifting, if his sample comes back positive he will have his medal stripped. It is the IOC conducting these retests NOT the IWF.
Fair point. All Olympic champions would test positive tho, so there must be some politics going on.
Well it depends on how much drugs are left in their system. If they cycle off early enough they can still pass the tests.
Does the IOC/WADA have any establishments in Kazakhstan? If they value their properties and the lives of their workers there, they will leave Ilya Ilyin alone LOL
It won’t be a joke, It will be legit. I love watching monster weights lifted, but it’s high time they started cleansing the sport.
Um…..cleansing=no monster weights!
…this comment ouch
Iliya wasn’t even tested during the London Olympics, say sources that competed in the A-group against him.
super star treatment:)
i heard 2 kazakhs got caught, 1 man and 1 women, this might be Ilya and Chinshanlo. i saw it on reddit and it was written on Polska-sztanga
Busted http://m.inform.kz/en/article/2910831
I just think this is kinda pathetic, if you couldn’t catch them back then why the hell do retests 8 and 4 years after?
Exactly.
Seems wildly unfair to the 2008 and 2012 competitors, considering that the competitors in previous games (2004, 2000, etc.) were surely doping just as hard or harder, yet were lucky enough that the testing procedures simply weren’t as sophisticated.
They retested samples from 2004, and stripped Oleg Perepetchenov of his silver medal. I still think it’s pathetic though…
It’s not pathetic, it’s fair… if you don’t use doping substances, you don’t have nothing to worry about… SAY NO TO DOPING!!
We all know that all olympic athletes dope. That’s nothing new. I don’t condone the use of steroids but I do love seeing some huge lifts. It doesn’t matter if they did it doped or not. If you use steroids and don’t train hard. Those lift aren’t gonna come around by some magical substance. Now stop that bullcrap and enjoy the damn sport. It’s like bodybuilding you love to see great physiques but to get to that point you have to use something in order to give that extra step. Life about choices!
This is bullsh*t. Not all olympic athletes dope, so stop generalizing. And yes, life is about choices, and if you choose to dope when it’s not allowed, then you are a cheater.
Yeah.. Not all Olympic athletes dope.. Those who do fencing or equestrian certainly don’t
You are correct that not everyone dopes but your examples are wrong! Doping is big in competition with horses unfortunately. Some fencers dope so they can practice longer by getting less tired.
Dude, can’t you recognize sarcasm when you see one? I do believe that every top athletes using some form of PED. Even archer use beta blocker to lower their heart rate and help them focus. That’s why I said perhaps only those who ride horses who don’t need to use PED (though I’m pretty sure they use some sort of pain killer to allow them ride on the back of the horses longer)
The most conserning thing is that some of those samples might have been contaminated during those 8 or 4 years so it is possible to someone get caught even though they had been clean. And if you have enough money you propably can get someone’s sample contaminated and that’s terrifying. What if someone working in the lab has accidently mixed some people’s samples? Risk of this kind of things to happen is very big if you store those samples for like 8 years.
amen…what a colossal waste of time to re write history. Ugh.
pretty shame how much money goes into testing these athletes, you could feed the entire world any anyones knows athletes are doping so whats the point it’s all coruption
Crusade of moral righteousness. Pretentious and damaging.
here-here. Amen.
It is ridiculous. Obviously everyone dopes. However some of them will be stripped of medals and some will not. So it is pure politics now. Olympic games is a joke.
It is time to close the books. redo the weight classes and leave the people before now alone. Then establish better doping standards going forward with the new records and weight classes.
For me the interesting part is that we don’t have the whole list of athletes who tested positive in Beijing and London but Shainova,Evstyukhina and Chicherova are already known.WHY???They don’t deserve the same treatment as the others?I understand the politics behind it but there is a disgusting personal part of it too. British athletes are making hypocritical statements for years now and I have to vomit from them.
We don’t have the full list because the B sample results haven’t returned yet, once they are back I’m sure all the names will be published. The reason the Russian women’s names are known is because somebody leaked them and they were published on a Russian website and by the sounds of it the source of the leak was from within Russia itself (open to correction on this point though).
I see,thanks.
which comments from british athletes do you refer to?
Goldie Sayers considered to withdraw from Rio if Russian athletes won’t be banned.I know she lost a bronze in Beijing but come on! She took the same staff as anyone else.Now she’s talking nonsense. I could go on with Dai Greene or Lindsey Sharp and so on.The list is endless. They ALL take drugs and they are all hypocrites because now they are on the safe side. Brits are now the righteous and perfect. Just disgusting.
there is NO evidence of Goldie Sayers taking anything though? You say it so flippantly. She lost her funding, which she wouldve got if she had medalled.
It’s disgusting you would take away a woman’s earnings based purely on what OTHER athletes have taken. How would you feel? Lose out on a medal AND the money you need to live because someone else cheated.
You should know better. It’s very clear when you meet and train with the british athletes that the vast majority have never touched drugs.
Oh man, you are dreaming.Look ,I respect your opinion but there are two groups of people in terms of what we think about doping. I am clearly not in the one who thinks that a 100 m can be run under 10 sec or a female athlete could throw the javelin 67-70 m without drugs.You probably are. No point to argue about it.
she probably took “less” drugs and therefore feels entitled:)
For the moment all these new doping cases seem to be sad news for weightlifting. In the long-run it *may* initiate a new step on the road to a testing system which guarantees the same chances for every athlete on becoming a olympic or world champion, no matter you are under the authority of which national doping agency – and maybe you don’t have to take these amount of drugs and risks you have nowadays.
If you are really on the side of athletes (not only a very few stars of today, but also of all those lots athletes who will or just will try to become the champions of the future), you better should support this way.
I used to share the same views as many of you; ‘we know the elite level are all doping, let them get on with it’ and i love to see huge lifts dont get me wrong.
However, since i began training more seriously, I have trained alongside some lower-level international athletes, my opinion has changed slightly. You can argue it ‘isn’t fair’ on the top guys getting popped, but the reality for the lower level lifters are the difference between C and B group or B and A can make a MASSIVE difference to your life. Many who fail to make a certain placing have funding cut entirely (if they ever got any in the first place). This to me, depriving someone of their livelihood is much much more ‘unfair’ than enforcing a RULE that is clear.
Can anyone explain to me why 2015 Worlds
(Houston) doping samples were sent to the Montreal WADA laboratory for
testing? Why not use either of the
WADA-accredited laboratories in the United States?
“There are two laboratories around the world that can test for peptides, one in Cologne, the other one in Montreal […]”
http://www.smh.com.au/sport/peptide-import-seizures-soaring-20130207-2e2b4.html
Article is from 2013 but even if this changed Montreal is likely still the best for it in NA.
Thank you, wlift84!
interesting!
Sorry, english is not my first language so…
I do like to see world records being broken. Do like to see how much powerful and pure olympic weightlifting can be at the higher level. Flash forward 4 years ago, when I started olympic weightlifting, my mindset was pretty much the same as some of you : let them take what they want, let them destroy world records. At the end of the day, they are pretty much all using it, at different level, in different way.
But then I start training with low/mid level international weightlifters (same situation as m8) and my point of view changed radically. I live and compete in Canada, where athletes are tested with probably the most strict regulation. You know many federations that test their athletes multiple time per year/month? Federation that ask you to give your location, your telephone number, etc. That consider that if you don’t respond to them in a X hours/days periods it’s a positive test? These mid level international weighlifters compete in the B or C group. So yeah, I don’t really cry about these A group lifters who test/tested positive.
But at the end of the day, why not let them compete as they want, not testing, etc? You really want a sport where in order to reach the top you have to sacrifice your health, your future? Competing at the highest level is NOT healthy, and will never be. However, you really want to be like powerlifting, bodybuilding? You really want a sport where 15-16 years old kids would have to choose between using PEDs or alway being a mid/low class lifter? I have friends in the powerlifting world who said to me month ago : “I need to stop competing. Because if I want to compete a my level, I need to keep using the stock, and if I keep doing it. I don’t know how much longer I will live.” This guy as world records to his name. BUT HE IS ALSO ONLY 22 YEARS OLD.
I won’t change any opinion. I would be dissapointed if any of my favorite lifters tested positive. But at the end of the day, everyone has the right to compete on the same leve.
Good post. I made the same experiences in Germany and completely share your opinion…
Who? Who is the 22 Year Old Powerlifter? Is he Canadian?
74kg class
Talking about Josh Hancott? Wonder who you are if you’re a close friend of him
I’m not an expert with steroids but basically what you’re saying is what I suspected ever since I started lifting and playing sports, is that as much as steroids improve your performance, to use them to get to the top level will likely destroy your health. The question is how many years would it shave off?
It would be unprecedented if *Kuo* gets the 53 Gold. 😛
Joke didn’t work. :/ It should be Hsu.
I got you bro :)))
polska sztanga gives a hint that second one is Ilya Ilyin (they did not write it) but suggest that Kazakh men champion from Lodon is on target, and there was only one male kazakh champion there… If true this is gonna be an earthquake…
http://www.polska-sztanga.pl/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=20285
Also one girl from AZE, so that can only be Boyanka
I don’t like that kind of gossiping.
In the past week I have heard a couple of names of athletes that have been retested positive. But until B samples are opened (soon) there shouldn’t be underhanded slander like this.
There won’t be an earthquake. We will just swallow it like we always did. Not a thing you can do about it. That’s why we have to have the records of his competitions and cherish them forever.
For you maybe not. But in Kazahstan Ilyin is a god. And if he goes down whole weightlifting there may go down and also olympic future of this sport is not so bright…
Of course I understand. Still,nothing can be done,can it? Also it’s not just one lifter – the KAZ “buble” (I call it like that because you never know how long does it last and it applies to all nations) are already bursting. The three guys from last year and now probably Chinshanlo?Doesn’t look good at all…
http://www.focus.de/sport/mehrsport/gewichtheben-doping-doping-in-russland-gewichtheber-quartett-vom-weltverband-gesperrt_id_5539297.html says that lovchev is out for 4 years!
Jesus,that seems very harsh! I hope he will win his appeal.I’d hate to see a great like Lovchev go for four years!Why the bloody IWF doesn’t tell us anything??? Well, I guess it’s not final yet.
Although it’s not WL but it’s retest too. Nesta is out 🙁
http://www.athleticsweekly.com/featured/nesta-carter-reportedly-tests-positive-following-beijing-2008-sample-reanalysis-44191/
Uh… if someone gets caught, that means s/he has a 2-year ban. So if someone is caught for a 2012 violation, are his/her results from 2013 and 2014 also cancelled?
I really do not mind to see some clean (as clean as possible) athletes to win medals in Rio. I like to see close competition though. I really think the best scenario is to announce all names now and get it over with so our beloved sport does not loses more credibility during games.
Nesta Carter, part of Jamaicans 4x100m gold winning team in 2008 and 2012 was caught as well. Bolt may lose a gold or two. http://www.trackalerts.com/Articles/joa-confirms-jamaican-positive-test-from-beijing-2008/15464/ or here http://www.watchathletics.com/article/9602/nesta-carter-reportedly-fails-drugs-test-at-2008-olympics/
“The bracken won’t rattle if the wind doesn’t blow it” or something like that as the Hungarian saying goes.I am afraid this is a black day for us: Muhammad Ali dies and Ilya Ilin gets caught for doping. Somehow I don’t think any of the athletes’ B samples will come out clean. It took long-long years for me accept that Olympic level is not just about talent. We are waiting for the announcement not because they are still analysing the B samples but because there are big battles being fight behind the curtain – who should be saved and who shouldn’t.
A black day? Maybe for those who get caught and the “old” weightlifting establishment. Not for weightlifting at all.
Oh I am so sorry for hurting your righteous feelings ,of course it’s just a bad day for us mortals who have no morality whatsoever and who except such a filthy things like Ilya or anybody else taking drugs and can’t see that it’s just really a few cheaters who do these awful things.
If you want weightlifting to have a future in western countries (and thereby as an olympic discipline), which do not look away from teenagers getting sloshed with drugs, and if you also want to provide same chances for every athlete (and not only do serious testing in a few countries), we have to win this (extremely tough) fight against doping – whether we like it or not. Weightlifting in Kazakhstan is not really a symbol of clean and fair sports, so better they get them today than tomorrow..
This view “they all take it, you can’t stop them and I want world records at all costs” is simplifying, gutless, near-termed and does not consider the interests of 99.9% of all athletes and the long-term future of weightlifting in its entirety, as a part of a civilised and manlike society and as an olympic discipline.
True.Beautifully written.I wouldn’t like to look cynical but it’s entirely against human nature and won’t work. Greed will probably always win as it always has. Nice notion anyway.
What are the options? Just accept “humans are greedy” and therefore stop all efforts to fight doping, to regulate capital markets, to try to stop wars and so on?
Maybe it’s not an easy way and certainly a perfect anti-doping-system is just impossible. But that’s no reason to give up.
Look at my home country, Germany: We had one of the most inhuman systems of governmental supported doping – in the GDR, where partially children before becoming teenagers where overstuffed with Oral-Turinabol & co. – and also in the FRG there was government-funded doping.
Nowadays we have one of the strictest anti-doping-policies and most independent and consequent implementation. I wouldn’t claim every top athlete here has never taken anything, but it’s just impossible to do it roughly in the same manner as in countries like Russia or Kazakhstan.
Who would have believed that 30 years before??
Of course it’s great and I never talked about doping a “let it go freely” sort of way. Wonderful if Germany can control drug taking so strictly. Every single country should BUT: I still don’t see clean high profile athletes no matter how good the system is. I appreciate it if there is no more inhuman doings anymore but please don’t tell me that for example Robert Harting is clean because I spent 20 years among great sportsmen and I know what can or cannot be done with and without drugs. I definitely support strict control but I definitely not accept hypocrisy ,lies and naivety. Latter is not you just generally amateurs.
I do not know enough about athletics to make a statement about Robert Harting, David Storl or others. But in these two cases I know some strength numbers. For example, Robert Harting has a snatch of around 140kg and a 210kg PR-bench (these kind of shotputter-touch&go), David Storl has a PR-bench of 190kg and a squat between 220 and 230. These numbers are a few kilos away from many eastern european top-athletes and at least do not seem to be completely unrealistic without roids. Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t put my shirt on them, but only considering the strength numbers and the way NADA works in olympic weightlifting and some other sports, I wouldn’t except they’re clean.
those numbers sound very possible without drugs,i have number like 80 % of that and i don’t train like them because i am an student from venezuela and we all know how it is going here, and i never have taken nothing away from creatine, and weight like 30 kg less
It’s confirmed, all papers (dutch, chinese, italian…) rave about Ilya and Chinshalo
Nothing about Ilya is confirmed yet. It all traces back to the slanderous hearsay from Polska Sztanga. Until there is an official announcement it’s just rumors.
Obviously this is quite a difficult issue, doping in general. I don’t think it can ever be eliminated or even significantly reduced. That being said, I still think we should try. In my opinion, we should continue to fight for that very unrealistic dream of “natural athletes”. I’d love to see what humans are really capable of, even though many would rather go back to an era of Blagoevs, Zlatevs, Suleymanoglus etc. And as for today, we should at least not give preferential treatments to anyone. Every time I hear a British/American low tier lifter whine about the “mighty, roided Russians” or shit like that my stomach turns. Like they’re fuckin clean. And people hate on the exceptional Russian lifters calin them out, while praising Xiaojun and Ilya, who are obiously doped af. It ain’t right.
There was no real need to post this yes, but I like to interject that Marek isn’t just some scrub making stuff up. He knows people in KAZ/AZE, I’ve asked what his sources are.
Why have some of my comments disappeared here? Were they automatically removed, or what?
I deleted them.
You got too carried away from the original topic, arguing back and forth about personal preferences.
All contemporary doping cases get announced after the initial A sample test by the IWF.
They know the 20 names. I don’t understand why equal “public disclosures” weren’t made here. This could’ve avoided all the bickering.
Yep, terrible way of running things.
https://tengrinews.kz/allsports/ilya-ilin-byit-lishen-zolota-diskvalifitsirovan-rio-iz-za-295788/ new information
Nope nothing new still. Just the same rumor mill still running citing sites that cite the original rumors
I know I just finished reading the article. I find the comments decent reads though. It appears the people are just calling it the usual. Politics. They blame Russia for it and question the authenticity of these retests. Why wait so long to retest them? I do find it very odd that they would do it so close to the Rio games.
An Azeri newspaper published 4 names of their national lifters affected, but now the page is gone. :S
I don’t know much about doping, so I read up on it quite a bit in the last few days due to this blowout. I made a special point of looking up the drugs for which weightlifters have been busted in the last few years. You hear about the usual side-effects such as hair loss, acne, shriveled testicles, man-like features in women etc. And you kind of think – fine, if someone wants to put themself through that, is it really that bad. Then you read up on the stuff and you find the real and less discussed side effects such as irreversible and possibly fatal liver damage (and these with substances considered to have “mild” adverse effects!!!), and you can’t help but think that’s a terrible price to pay for a spot on the podium. And even more, you get a feeling that it’s terrible if we let sports mean that a talented 15-yo has to start thinking about stuff like liver damage in order to make it in their sport. I realize all sports at a certain level are inherently dangerous, but there has to be a line between destroying your inner organs and the other dangers of sports. I think cleaning up the sport is vital and WADA is doing an important job. And even so, I hope to see my favourite weightlifters at the top of their game and breaking records in Rio. Double standard? Maybe, but the thought process behind all this is still brewing in my mind.
When was the last time you heard of a weightlifter die or liver/kidney failure?
That’s the point, isn’t it? Atletes don’t do this shit on their own. Virtually every country has it’s own pharmaceutical program – not necessarily in weightlifting, mind you, but in the sports where they want to win – and the athletes are monitored by doctors and the drugs are probably administered by doctors. And the doctors help them cheat the tests as well. So I’m not really worried about professional athletes here. What I worry about is talented kids who start juicing on their own at a very young age because they want to make it and feel there’s no other way because everyone’s doing it. That really is a recipe for disaster, as bodybuilding will tell you. I have read of bodybuilder wannabes ending up on dialysis and needing kidney transplants and suffering liver damage due to steroid abuse, so it’s no joke.
You’ve been reading some awfully biased sources. Regular usage of those drugs in amounts that are actually beneficial for weightlifting has less side effects than an aspirin…
Well actually, i got that from sites endorsing the use and even selling steroids, so biased for sure but not the way you think.
Dream on… Maybe it’s quite unlikely that one of the big names, who is taking his or her drugs under supervision of “sports” physicians, will die on acute complications. But there are long-term consequences such as higher risk of cancer, cardio vascular diseases and so on.
And don’t forget there are many boys and girls who will never reach the top, but neverless get roids with a really high risk to sustain abnormal development. If you are looking for evidence, just read some storys about the victims of doping in GDR.
Here it is written that Kołecki says Ilyin 2008 is for sure doping and London is being still valuated. Dolega can also get medal (it means lapikov,Klokov or Armanau were on doping)…
http://www.sport.pl/inne/1,64998,20203193,olimpijskie-zloto-dla-szymona-koleckiego.html#MTstream
I wish they’d just get on with it. It’s just ridiculous that lifters got caught last year in Houston still haven’t received their sentence.My heart bleeds for every single one of them but I’d like to see who will be able to go to Rio – just two months until that.
What’s the German documentary called?
Geheimsache Doping. Latest Episode is also available in English https://allthingsgym.com/german-documentary-systematic-russian-doping/
Thanks mate
damn it this is really bad #pray4everyone
http://www.iwf.net/anti-doping/sanctions/
A few new bans have been handed out after all.
POBOBEDOVA, MANEZA, CHINSHANLO ( how and ILYIN ) had Positive Test in London-2012 (and OUT Rio)
Well shit I really hoped Apti’s name wouldn’t be there, looking forward to see the results from 2008 then. Pondering a bit about these selective samples.
On the other hand, congrats to the new medalists (Lidia etc.) I suppose..
With reports of this magnitude, wouldn’t it be better to make a new post rather than updating an old one? Makes the comments very difficult to sift through, as well as the post itself.
Top right of discus, sort by new posts.
ILYA NOOOOOOOO
And Not only ILYA , Not and ALL TEAM of KAZAKHSTAN ( POBOBEDOVA, MANEZA, CHINSHANLO) – all Have Positive TEST ) on Doping) from LONDON-2012 (and ALL OUT RIO)
Lu survived the rampage! #Lu #raises #4ever
Good to see, they don’t have regards for big names. Hoping this is not only today a sad moment for weightlifting, but rather an initial point for some changes leading to more equity for all athletes.
Is it the complete list or are there still some results pending?
This is the complete 10 names of 2012. they will announce 2008 names later.
Thank you!
I see 4 champions here, does that mean there is some other gold medalist at 2008 Olympics that is yet to be busted, or did they count Ilya twice? ;P
Seems that the targetting was awfully biased, all these countries are “post-Soviet”, they really let KAZ have it. Yet again, the Chinese are untouchable…
Definitely seems biased. However I wouldn’t say the chinese are untouchable. If you look at the sanctions given by IWF (as grobpote linked) you’d see that they’ve had a total of 6 sanctions, comparable to PRK. Not close in comparison to many other countries of course but not impossible either. They got Liao Hui once and depending on the Beijing results, more might appear.
Not really surprising tho. Astana Pro Cycling Team had its fair share of doping scandals in the sport of pro cycling over the years.
Women Team Kazakhstan in Rio : Eleseeva (48 kg), Goricheva (63 kg), Zhapparkul (69 kg), NOGAY (+75 kg). Podobedova, MANEZA, Chinshanlo – Doping in London-2012 (and all they OUT RIO-2016),
So, Sedov already knew it
What do you mean?
He’s referring to Sedov’s outburst at the nationals
Is ilyn’s positive test from beijing or london? I would not mind seeing kolecki get a well deserved olympic gold.
2012… Ivanov can be eliminated into Olympic Champion of 2012
Probably makes more sense that it was 2012 but kolecki’s Wikipedia page already shows a gold medal in Beijing
How can an international top athlete, from a country were doping, most probably is state funded, be so damn stupid to use ancient anabolic steroids? You very rarely se anybody caught with testosterone, insulin, GH for example. Everybody with slight insight knows that the detection window for those old steroids are getting wider and wider for every year that passes…
As it comes to Ilyin if he gets hit twice (I mean Beijing also) it could mean he had to be protected by IWF… (as he was always clean on IWF events though breaking records)… Maybe he thought he can take anything, just because there could be agreement between IWF and Kazakhstan federation (probably money based:)). I think same about Podobedova, Maneza and Chinshanlo… Of course I do not make any accusations, just my deductions which can be far from truth…
Ilyin was ‘clean’ in 2008 and 2012… But after 8 and 4 years later they retested him and found doping…
Good point… But this wave of retesting maybe is beyond control of certain group of people? And if Chinese are not hit are they using something less obsolete than oxandrolon and stanozolol… Time will tell…
Not everyone is Pat Mendes lol. If you’ve read up on the German documentary about doping in Russia then you should know that doping is not a matter of choice for individual athletes but methodically chosen by their “superiors”.
But yes you could speculate that the deal they were having with iwf wore off thus it would make sense that they didn’t care what kind of drugs they used at the time. Just a shame they took down additional athletes to make it look like a “regular” retest.
c’mon they all dope now let go Ilyia lift 250 in c&j in rio
Really sad that Ilya got caught. Though … he’s probably more upset about it than we. He must be feeling terrible right now.
Biggest questions is, why where they using substances every lab knows best and which are very easy traceable for years. I think they knew that in these olypmic games (peking, london) labs had to search for something different or “new”.
but its just guessing and of course wondering. greets
You can find the statement below by Ilyin on many sites including http://m.sports.kz/news/ilin-rasskazal-o-skandale-s-dopingom. It is carefully worded, and he never actually says that he is innocent.
Казахстанский тяжелоатлет Илья Ильин прокомментировал скандал с обнаружением у него допинга, сообщает Sports.kz.
«Полученная информация, прозвучала для меня как гром среди ясного неба.
Согласно правилам Международной Федерации тяжёлой атлетики, вся информация обо мне находится в международной системе «ADAMS», где расписан каждый день моей жизни по часам, с указанием местонахождения, независимо тренировочный это процесс или время досуга. Я постоянно открыт и доступен для контролёров Антидопингового Агентства и уже в этом году дважды сдавал допинг-контроль, в Польше, где был на сборах и в г.Алматы.
Как вы знаете, ни один международный старт также не проходит без допинг — контроля. И я, как все спортсмены, сдаю допинг- тесты с 2004 года. И всегда результат был отрицательный.
Я продолжаю подготовку к Олимпиаде в Рио и намерен идти до конца.
Спортивное руководство максимально включилось в процесс и думаю, к концу июня будет известен результат. У меня есть время до середины июля, чтобы успеть подать заявку на участие в Олимпиаде.
Думаю, нам удастся доказать всю нелепость и несостоятельность обвинений в мой адрес.
Независимо от того какие будут приняты решения относительно меня, я хочу, чтобы вы знали, что почти 20 лет из своей недолгой жизни я провёл в спортивном зале, тренируясь до боли, до крови по 3 тренировки в день. Я всегда чувствовал на своих плечах ответственность перед своей страной, перед своим народом и всегда боролся только за победу. Все эти годы вы поддерживали меня и в трудные дни и в радостные. Надеюсь на вашу поддержку и сейчас.
Ваш Илья Ильин, — написал Ильин в своем Instagram.
Thanks, can someone please translate this?
This text was published at Ilya’s instagram in both Russian and English versions. I didn’t read the English version full, but I think it’s better than just google translate
Google Translate:
Kazakh weightlifter Ilya Ilyin said the scandal with the discovery of his doping, reports Sports.kz.
“The information, sounded to me like a bolt from the blue.
According to the rules of International Weightlifting Federation, all the information about me is in the international system «ADAMS», which is painted every day of my life by the clock, showing the location, regardless of the process of training or leisure. I always open and available to inspectors Anti-Doping Agency, and already this year, double-handed doping control, in Poland, where he was at the training camp in Almaty.
As you know, no international competition also goes by without doping – control. And I, like all athletes, hand over doping tests since 2004. And always the result was negative.
I continue to prepare for the Olympic Games in Rio and intends to follow through.
Sport management was involved in the process as much as possible and I think the end of June will be known result. I have until mid-July, in time to apply for participation in the Olympics.
I think we can prove the absurdity and inconsistency of the accusations addressed to me.
No matter what decisions will be made about me, I want you to know that almost 20 years of his short life I spent in the gym, exercising to the pain, the blood of 3 workouts per day. I always felt on his shoulders the responsibility to his country, to its people and always fought only for the victory. All these years, you have supported me in difficult times and joyful. I hope for your support today.
Your Ilya Ilyin – Ilyin wrote in his Instagram
Away from all this – which is very sad – Tsarukaeva came to my mind. She was a reverse if I remember well. Someone got injured and she – who probably didn’t even trained with all her heart – won a silver medal. It surely changed her whole life – lots of money and appreciation and so on. Now that might even change to gold medal… man that is some unbelievable development.
No, in the reserve it was not Tsarukaeva but Zabolotnaya. You are right – she was very glad to her silver medal. She said: “For me, a silver medal is as a gold one”.
http://london2012.rsport.ru/london2012_weightlifting/20120803/607993421.html
Nooo! How on earth could that be? Zabolotnaya was absolutely wonderful! Anyway I guess getting the gold is always welcome even under these circumstances.
I’m just about done with this sport.
They clearly don’t want a single non-chinese in any competition.
They want complete 100% domination by China in every category.
Why not just throw in a few more billions in the bribes and just buy every single medal straight up? No need to compete.
I just think the Chinese take some better roids… And we have not heard yet who got caught from the Beijing olympics.
It says 5 champions between 2008 and 2012 were caught, and all 5 are accounted for, so I’d say the Chinese are mostly clear for 2008. The only Chinese in 2008 who WEREN’T champions are (old) Shi Zhiyong (-69kg, DNF) and Li Hongli (-77kg, silver).
wait who’s the fifth one? For 2012:
Ilya, maneza, Chinshanlo, Podobedova – who is the last champion?
If iwf really wants to be a piece of shit then they should take a strike at CHN and remove Liao Hui from Beijing. That would remove his medal from the past and the future as he missed London. If I recall correctly then he was close at quitting weightlifting after his 1st ban.
Ilya twice from both games LOL. Well, it at least clears up fears of Belorussian team bust as some people speculated that Aramnau and Rybakov might be in danger as well. I would be especially peeved if they found Rybakov positive because that means he robbed Lu Yong (my favorite lifter) of his chance to be the WR holder since Lu spent his last lift beating Rybakov on body-weight instead of setting a new WR AND Lu wouldn’t suddenly hold the WR either because Rostami set a new one just weeks ago.
Well, yes, busting Liao would be tragic for China but I, at this point, still think that it depends on what they find in his sample as opposed to some people who have lost hope altogether and believe they’re just busting people based on politics and not even giving a damn what they find in the samples anymore LOL
Polish press claims that Dolega will get medal, and they normally are quite accurate about these things.
Considering that the full list of russian athletes that tested positive in 2008 is already out, and the only lifters in it are Shainova and Evstyukhina, my money is on Aramnau to be that 5th one.
We know two of them: Marina Shainova and Nadezhda Evstyukhina as Gregor informed us above. So what we don’t know is the last 8 names.
Watch China grab every single gold medal at Rio, except the 105+ one that Lasha takes.
Only to have it taken from him half a year later.
Yeah, man, you know how those old white fellas who run WADA, the IOC, the IWF all love to help the Chinese and see Chinese guys win. Other than the fact that all your assertions are completely devoid of evidence, there’s also the point that if the IOC wanted China to take more gold medals in weightlifting, the simplest and fairest thing it could do would be to just do away with the quota of 6 men and 4 women. This quota is basically specifically designed to stop Chinese domination as no other team has the range of China’s team. Only Russia may feel a slight pinch from the numbers, but China feels a huge squeeze since no other nation can field at least 1 woman in every weight class who is a strong competitor for gold. (Meng Suping, solid silver in the women’s super heavies, won’t make the quota because guaranteed silver is just not good enough to use a spot!) For the men’s team, Russia can occasionally match China’s range when China is short of good heavies, but not now. China’s men’s team has a strong gold medal contender in every weight class except 94, 105, and 105+. In these classes, China is still present in the top 5-10, but the chances of winning gold are slim (but better now in the 94 and 105 after the busts…). Russia is not present in a meaningful way in the 56 and 62, has a weak presence in the 77 (top 10), and the rest, they are relatively strong (pre-bust). So if they simply changed the rule to allow 1 competitor in every weight class OR even better, that any weightlifter regardless of nationality who lifts a certain weight threshold in competition within the 2 years leading up to the Olympics may compete, that would be a fair rule and help China a lot. If I were bribing anyone from the IOC on behalf of China, I would simply request that they remove this one unfair rule of 6 men and 4 women.
Not to seem to pro-china, but you seem totally anti-china as you’re not laying enough stats into recent comps. This is my forecast of the winners despite the KAZ “setup”.
Male:
56: Om Yun Chol hands down
62: Chen Lijun, shame about Kim Un Guk.
69: Liao Hui, hopefully Daniyar can push him a bit.
77: difficult to determine, Rahimov rules in c&j and Ehab+Karapetyan not far behind. Lu is rng c&j.
85: Putting my bets on Rostami, seems more confident than ever.
94: Sohrab hands down
105: Nurudinov
105+ Lasha
Female:
48: Prolly CHN, though I’m cheering for Miyake
53: Even without Chinshanlo, Hsu can still be a threat (Houston + remember asian games?)
58: Likely CHN medal without Kostova unless Kuo pulls out her A-game.
63: Deng wei hands down, neither Maneza nor Lin have the numbers to beat her currently.
69: I suppose Zhapparkul was a threat, though Xianmei’s recent numbers was adequate.
75: Yea i’d say Podobedova was the winner here, RIm Jong Sim might take it if she has recovered.
+75: Kashirina hands down.
So the retests have affected CHN in 3 (4) catagories (53-58-75)(69) – all females. The guys entirely unaffected regarding CHN so thats not exactly dominance. Even without KAZ I’d say TPE and especially PRK are their main rivals.
Lasha and Nurudinov will have their medals taken away from them, a year, two years, four years or eight years after they get them.
Same with Kashirina.
And what are you left with? Chinese and north koreans.
And the occasional iranian.
ATG you can do a preview list or favorites list how will compete or filledup the quotas for RIO
I can’t understand how anyone might think that this isn’t purely political / rigged. There are no new methods of detecting Stanozol metabolites or any other of those ancient drugs, so all that is happening here today is a pure set-up. There is no way they didn’t know these athletes doped for all these years. I wonder what really happened behind closed doors…
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4033149
you can take that tinfoil hat off now.
Thanks for the link, an interesting read.
Es una vergüenza y lo peor es que no lo allá publicado en su momento que confianza se le tendrá a la wada
I fully agree.
I think that one of the most important part of these mass scandals is how a nation can recover from it. I remember in 1988 at the Seoul Olympics Hungary had two lifters DQ-d. After that the Hungarian WL went down to the very basics for about six years. Later in 2004 Athens there was another scandal where 3 lifters tested positive and now our WL practically doesn’t exist. Compared to that there were huge,whole team busts in Bulgaria but they always came back in no time. I think KAZ will also bounce back easily because they don’t care and they have a big number of new wonderfully talented lifters. I also think that Alexei Ni will survive and he won’t mind Ilya out of the picture. He will have a bunch of world class athletes without the star attitude, and they won’t talk back. At least for a while 🙂 Dream of every trainer.
KAZ weightlifting will most certainly recover quickly. I mean their backers have lots of experience from Astana Pro Cycling Team 🙂
It will be a huge blow to our sport if more weightlifters get caught during Rio games. I am positive some countries may take a chance and send a lifter with questionable doping results. For example I would not send Sohrab Moradi if I was not sure he is clean. Just imagine the bad publicity.
On the other hand we are all waiting to hear about 2015 world doping announcement.
Is Ilya caught of for his 2008 gold? Does this mean his records and medals from 2014 would still count?
I like to thank Gregor for being such sport and still publishing bad news about his home country lifter. I certainly appreciate to has this forum available.
Best Regards,
GHM
Gregor is from Kazakhstan? I always thought he’s British for some reason…
I am German for some reason
and zero Chinese lifters failed the tests….awfully curious.
Just as usual I suppose? At least Aranmau and the rests get to keep their legacy.. for now.
year 3020, Aramnau is stripped of his gold medal after a sample retest held in a remote lab on Andromeda
for now…jeez.
I think max limit is 8 years for retest.
Nurcan Taylan used stanozolol and yet again she bombed out in snatch. Pfffff !
Will ATG be in Georgia? Can someone ask about the 7 vs. 10 names mismatch please.
Yup, I’ll fly out tomorrow. Doubt anybody from IWF will comment on this though…
It happened because the missing three were saved in the last minute 🙂
If that were true, then wouldn’t the IWF/IOC/WADA just throw 3 nobodies under the bus to save themselves from the scrutiny of the 7 vs. 10 discrepancy?
Yeah,I was just kidding. They probably will after the first announcement was about 10 names. Don’t think they can ditch it.
Are all the names out? Apparently Ajan talked about 10 positives and I just see 7 athletes in the list.
Anyway, Ilya seems done and dusted. Didn’t see this coming 🙁
It’s kinda curious that the athletes who tested positive are all from Eastern Europe (+1 from Turkey) and I don’t see any Western athletes here. I am from the west, but I don’t really believe that all the Western Athletes are clean. To me it kind of seems that dopings tests are possibly related to politics. A somewhat related example with football where Russia get’s an official warning while England does not, while hooligans of both countries were misbehaving.
I don’t discount the idea that this could be true, but what politics? People always refer to politics, but are we merely suggesting that Western and Chinese athletes are bribing the IWF or other orgs? Or are the political decisions of these countries causing organizations to specifically target these countries? People always refer to the politics, but I’ve never really heard a concrete example of what this might be. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist, but I’m still curious.
the general russians-are-the-bad-guys hate train, that is going at full speed at the moment. Calling Russia an enemy of Nato, sanctions on their trade etc.. If you want to create a narrative, where they are the bad guys it’s a valid tactic to discredit their athletes and make it look as if they were all nothing but a bunch of cheats. At least that’s what I understand as politics.
I am not saying they weren’t doping. They sure as hell were. But it’s not as if they hadn’t been doing that for decades. And others certainly too. But busting them and going after them right now just seems a little too convient in the current political climate. /tinfoilhat off
the general russians-are-the-bad-guys hate train, that is going at full speed at the moment. Calling Russia an enemy of Nato, sanctions on their trade etc.. If you want to create a narrative, where they are the bad guys it’s a valid tactic to discredit their athletes and make it look as if they were all nothing but a bunch of cheats. At least that’s what I understand as politics.
I am not saying they weren’t doping. They sure as hell were. But it’s not as if they hadn’t been doing that for decades. And others certainly too. But busting them and going after them right now just seems a little too convient in the current political climate. /tinfoilhat off
Ironically, though, before the busts, Russia had no weightlifting Olympic champions between Beijing and London, and now, they have 3! Kazakhstan is hit the hardest, no doubt.
Ironically, though, before the busts, Russia had no weightlifting Olympic champions between Beijing and London, and now, they have 3! Kazakhstan is hit the hardest, no doubt.
That makes sense. I’m surprised places like Iran don’t get busted more, though, for those sort of reasons.
That makes sense. I’m surprised places like Iran don’t get busted more, though, for those sort of reasons.
I don’t discount the idea that this could be true, but what politics? People always refer to politics, but are we merely suggesting that Western and Chinese athletes are bribing the IWF or other orgs? Or are the political decisions of these countries causing organizations to specifically target these countries? People always refer to the politics, but I’ve never really heard a concrete example of what this might be. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist, but I’m still curious.
Or, that western countries only won 3(Germany, Poland and France) of the 45 medals in Beijing and 3 (Poland, Canada and Romania) in London?
I didn’t know Romania and Poland were western countries 🙂
I didn’t know Romania and Poland were western countries 🙂
Or, that western countries only won 3(Germany, Poland and France) of the 45 medals in Beijing and 3 (Poland, Canada and Romania) in London?
I don’t like it when people, if things are complicated and complex, always scream “politics” or search for conspiracy theories.
The world is not only black and white. There are many athletes on juice, but to believe that really everybody is doping – even in western countries with stricter anti-doping regulations – is wrong; as wrong as to believe, that everybody in these countries is clean (some of them might only do not use these old-school juice any more).
Try to think in probabilities. The propability to get caught while doping in western countries is much higher than in Russia or Kazakhstan. Just the opposite as the likelyhood to become an olympic champion when you’re from USA or Germany (unless you are diabetic…) instead from many eastern european countries.
You do not need a complot to explain why no western european athletes got caught, if you really have a closer look how fight against doping is implemented in some countries. The same is with China: Maybe they just have better information on the preceding development of drug testing. Or because of the bigger talent of their athletes they can allow themself to cycle-off earlier. And maybe they have additionally some completely new stuff which can not be detected (yet).
The world is complex and many faceted. So don’t always try to find easy explanations (‘conspiracy!’, ‘politics!’)…
P.S. Russia got an UEFA-warning because of misbehaving in the stadium – the hooligans from England ‘only’ did it outside the stadium. Because of the UEFA by law only judges what happens in the stadium, Russia got the warning. Again, no conspiracy if you have a closer look.
What are you talking about? There are about 1,000 out-of-competition tests per year in Germany for track&field athletes (from the DLV-testpool), conducted bei NADA, IAAF or WADA. Plus the tests at competitions.
But even Russia presents you high numbers of tests. The thing is that NADA takes its job comparatively serious, similar in some other western states. In other countries, it is obviously subverted by bribed employees and more or less under governmental control.
What are you talking about? There are about 1,000 out-of-competition tests per year in Germany for track&field athletes (from the DLV-testpool), conducted bei NADA, IAAF or WADA. Plus the tests at competitions.
But even Russia presents you high numbers of tests. The thing is that NADA takes its job comparatively serious, similar in some other western states. In other countries, it is obviously subverted by bribed employees and more or less under governmental control.
I don’t like it when people, if things are complicated and complex, always scream “politics” or search for conspiracy theories.
The world is not only black and white. There are many athletes on juice, but to believe that really everybody is doping – even in western countries with stricter anti-doping regulations – is wrong; as wrong as to believe, that everybody in these countries is clean (some of them might only do not use these old-school juice any more).
Try to think in probabilities. The propability to get caught while doping in western countries is much higher than in Russia or Kazakhstan. Just the opposite as the likelyhood to become an olympic champion when you’re from USA or Germany (unless you are diabetic…) instead from many eastern european countries.
You do not need a complot to explain why no western european athletes got caught, if you really have a closer look how fight against doping is implemented in some countries. The same is with China: Maybe they just have better information on the preceding development of drug testing. Or because of the bigger talent of their athletes they can allow themself to cycle-off earlier. And maybe they have additionally some completely new stuff which can not be detected (yet).
The world is complex and many faceted. So don’t always try to find easy explanations (‘conspiracy!’, ‘politics!’)…
P.S. Russia got an UEFA-warning because of misbehaving in the stadium – the hooligans from England ‘only’ did it outside the stadium. Because of the UEFA by law only judges what happens in the stadium, Russia got the warning. Again, no conspiracy if you have a closer look.
IIlya did say he was going to win a medal on a vegan diet. So, It’s safe to assume that vegans use steroids….
Important IMO:
Look at http://www.iwf.net/results/world-records/
List of world record holders for super heavy weight has changed.
How so? Salimi and Reza still there. Lovchev popped positive long ago.
Several days ago Lovchev was still in the list
Interesting; I did not know that.
Interesting; I did not know that.
Several days ago Lovchev was still in the list
How so? Salimi and Reza still there. Lovchev popped positive long ago.
Important IMO:
Look at http://www.iwf.net/results/world-records/
List of world record holders for super heavy weight has changed.
http://www.iwf.net/anti-doping/sanctions/
There are new names on the sanctioned athletes list.
http://www.iwf.net/anti-doping/sanctions/
There are new names on the sanctioned athletes list.
Seems like there’s a couple more Kaz positives from 2008.
http://www.prosportkz.kz/ru/news/96224.html
I imagine they decided to go ahead and test the rest of the Kaz lifters after the five gold medalists tested positive.
“The IWF Executive Board further decided that National Federations confirmed to have produced 3 or more Anti-Doping Rule Violations in the combined re-analysis process of the 2008 and 2012 Olympic Games shall be suspended for 1 year.”
Does that mean that RUS,BLR and KAZ are out of the olympics for sure?
Yes, Why : RUS. KAZ and BLR ( and their weightliftings) in List of IWF for Rio ???? ( if 3 or more Tests ( from 2008 and 2012 years) was Positive in Teams of Russia, Kazakhstan and BLR )
Only Kalina and Ozkan have had their decisions finalised by the IOC. The banning of Kaz, Blr and Rus can only come into effect once all their athletes implicated in the retest have their results finalised by the IOC.
Kazakhstan : 2008 – Ilya Ilyin – Positive Test ; and 2012 – Chinshanlo, Maneza and Podobedova + again Ilyin – also Positive Tests ( and “Test A” and “Test B”). Russia : in 2012 year Auhadov (85 kg ) – Positive Test and in 2008 Shainova and Evstuhina – also Positive Tests and “A” and “B” – this 3 Athletes). And in Belarus – also 3 Athletes have Positive Tests ( for 2012 and 2008 year). Therefore KAZ, BLR and Russia (their Athletes) must to be Out of RIO. In Tbilisi ( on Congress of IWF) it was the Decision – If 3 and more Tests (from 2008 and 2012) was Positive ( how in Teams of Kazakhstan, Russia and Belarus) – then all 3 Teams OUT RIO
The International Olympic Committee (IOC) have announced 30 athletes from Beijing 2008 and 15 from London 2012 have tested positive in the second wave of retests from the last two Summer Olympic Games.
A total of 23 medallists from Beijing 2008 produced provisional adverse analytical findings as a result of the second wave, which was predominantly focused on athletes who reached the podium at the Games.
The IOC have stated that the 30 athletes from the Games came from four sports and eight National Olympic Committees (NOC).
Two sports were implicated in the 15 positives from the London 2012 Olympic Games, coming from a spread of nine NOCs.
It’s kind of funny how Sedov talked so much smack about Ilya, but then tests positive himself.
LOL, embarassment for sedov for that silly outburst, now he got busted too… he’s prob going to take a back seat now and keep quiet
Now double-embarassment, with Ivanov being caught as well.
Now double-embarassment, with Ivanov being caught as well.
I don’t know if anybody already mentioned this, but Kalina’s DSQ in London is already official in the IWF website.
Ummm… Wow. Albegov too? Russia’s really having it rough.
So Lidia will be the gold medalist after all. I can’t believe it.It really is the greatest doping scandal ever.
Yes, Lidia ( 4 Place) will be the GOLD medalist in 75 kg for 2012 year. 11 Positives Tests – this is for 2012, But where 23 ( Medalists) Positives Tests ( in 2 wave) for 2008 year – in 4 Kinds sport. ???????
Yes, Lidia ( 4 Place) will be the GOLD medalist in 75 kg for 2012 year. 11 Positives Tests – this is for 2012, But where 23 ( Medalists) Positives Tests ( in 2 wave) for 2008 year – in 4 Kinds sport. ???????
Yes, all Weightlifting (after this is Greatest Scandals) – can to be Just OUT – Removed from Olympic Games.
Yes, all Weightlifting (after this is Greatest Scandals) – can to be Just OUT – Removed from Olympic Games.
Now we know why Christina Iovu’s squats looked so easy. Big surprise…
Now we know why Christina Iovu’s squats looked so easy. Big surprise…
For how many years was BUL suspended? I hope they have guts to suspend RUS, KAZ and BLR for at least as many years after these cases keep coming.
For how many years was BUL suspended? I hope they have guts to suspend RUS, KAZ and BLR for at least as many years after these cases keep coming.
Svetlana Tsarukaeva and Ruslan Albegov have the same coach: Kazbek Zoloev. Hands up anyone who thinks that Russia will suspend him for promoting steroids to his athletes…
You may also remember Alan Tsagaev who is banned for life
You may also remember Alan Tsagaev who is banned for life
Where do you see Albegov?
Where do you see Albegov?
Svetlana Tsarukaeva and Ruslan Albegov have the same coach: Kazbek Zoloev. Hands up anyone who thinks that Russia will suspend him for promoting steroids to his athletes…
Previously there was information about Albegov too. If it was true, why isn’t he on this list?
It was vbros
It was vbros
Previously there was information about Albegov too. If it was true, why isn’t he on this list?
So our congratulations go to all athletes not using Dehydrochlormethyltestosterone and Stanozolol in their cycles. They can reign happily ever after as champions until new methods are discovered to trace longer-life metabolites of other stimulants. C’mon guys, are you really surprised that champions get juiced? And that the only reason they did not get caught was then-current politics, good cycle planning and cheating in off-season testing procedures. And that it’s not only the bad bad Bulgarians. Our fellow wlift84 even created a nice post “The fraud of Bulgaria” or something. Hey, wlift84, do you plan to make these a series, like “The fraud of Russia”, “The fraud of Kazakhstan”, etc…
Someone just now noticed the 5-ton pink elephant in the room.
So our congratulations go to all athletes not using Dehydrochlormethyltestosterone and Stanozolol in their cycles. They can reign happily ever after as champions until new methods are discovered to trace longer-life metabolites of other stimulants. C’mon guys, are you really surprised that champions get juiced? And that the only reason they did not get caught was then-current politics, good cycle planning and cheating in off-season testing procedures. And that it’s not only the bad bad Bulgarians. Our fellow wlift84 even created a nice post “The fraud of Bulgaria” or something. Hey, wlift84, do you plan to make these a series, like “The fraud of Russia”, “The fraud of Kazakhstan”, etc…
Someone just now noticed the 5-ton pink elephant in the room.
Even more hilarious! Sedov comes out to the nationals with a shirt saying Ivanov is the real champ and goes on a tirade about Ilyin -> Sedov gets popped -> Ivanov gets popped. Hahaha
“Alexandr Ivanov”
I wonder if that Kazak guy is going to re-do his act now with a new t-shirt? :’)
But really, what a joke, the guy in 8th spot in the -94kg will now get the bronze. Can we ban these countries already from everything?
“the guy in 8th spot in the -94kg will now get the bronze”
Yes and no! Please look at women 100m from Melbourne, http://www.sports-reference.com/olympics/summer/2000/ATH/womens-100-metres.html. No gold for Thanou because IAAF banned her later.
“the guy in 8th spot in the -94kg will now get the bronze”
Yes and no! Please look at women 100m from Melbourne, http://www.sports-reference.com/olympics/summer/2000/ATH/womens-100-metres.html. No gold for Thanou because IAAF banned her later.
“Alexandr Ivanov”
I wonder if that Kazak guy is going to re-do his act now with a new t-shirt? :’)
But really, what a joke, the guy in 8th spot in the -94kg will now get the bronze. Can we ban these countries already from everything?
This is absolutely awful, all these iconic lifters getting dragged throught the mud like this. I’m really starting to believe olympics are thrying to discard weightlifting.
This is absolutely awful, all these iconic lifters getting dragged throught the mud like this. I’m really starting to believe olympics are thrying to discard weightlifting.
1st, 2nd, AND 3rd place getting popped?!?! That must be unprecedented.
Can someone explain why they weren’t caught before/during the games? I assume they were tested BEFORE the games. If tested then, how could they not have caught the PEDs then? And why re-test them 4-8 years later? What’s the point of that? Why test them years later when theythey should have tested and caught them DURING the Games? It doesn’t make logical sense to me. And are they jusy holding their samples indefinitely? Like, their blood and urine just sitting in a storage unit waiting?….how does more time equate to the samples changing all of a sudden? And what was the purpose of retesting now? Is that normal procedure, to retest years later before the upcoming Games?
Can someone explain why they weren’t caught before/during the games? I assume they were tested BEFORE the games. If tested then, how could they not have caught the PEDs then? And why re-test them 4-8 years later? What’s the point of that? Why test them years later when theythey should have tested and caught them DURING the Games? It doesn’t make logical sense to me. And are they jusy holding their samples indefinitely? Like, their blood and urine just sitting in a storage unit waiting?….how does more time equate to the samples changing all of a sudden? And what was the purpose of retesting now? Is that normal procedure, to retest years later before the upcoming Games?
Can someone explain why they weren’t caught before/during the games? I assume they were tested BEFORE the games. If tested then, how could they not have caught the PEDs then? And why re-test them 4-8 years later? What’s the point of that? Why test them years later when theythey should have tested and caught them DURING the Games? It doesn’t make logical sense to me. And are they jusy holding their samples indefinitely? Like, their blood and urine just sitting in a storage unit waiting?….how does more time equate to the samples changing all of a sudden? And what was the purpose of retesting now? Is that normal procedure, to retest years later before the upcoming Games?
There have been advances in the test methods since 2008 and 2012 (think one breakthrough was in 2013/2014) that means they now can detect drugs in samples where they could not before.
The samples are held for 8 or 10 years specifically for this purpose, develop better methods and catch the cheaters. Hopefully now the system behind the athletes will think twice about pushing drugs on their athletes to get achieve results only to be ridculed 8 years down the road.
shouldnt he have gotten his medals revoked by now?
Shoudnt Ilya medals been revoked by now?
Any thoughts on what will happen to Ilya? I know sources have said he went to the UK to study. But with 2 retrospective positives, does that constitute a lifetime ban?
Any thoughts on what will happen to Ilya? I know sources have said he went to the UK to study. But with 2 retrospective positives, does that constitute a lifetime ban?
http://www.iwf.net/2016/08/24/public-disclosures-5/ 15 new cases, including Beijing 2008 Olympic champions, Liu Chunhong, Cao Lei, Xiexia Chen. Also Lapikov, Akkaev and Rybakou on the list.
Looks like Lydia might have managed to pick up three Olympic weightlifting medals within a two-month period. I’m pretty sure that’s never been done before. It also seems that she and Jang Mi-ran may become the only three-time Olympic medalists in women’s weightlifting–or have I left someone out? It’s hard to keep track.
Wow, so if im looking correctly from 5th to 2nd in 2008 and from 4th to 1st in 2012. This is ridiculous, but good for her.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAUY1J8KizU
So what now?
Reset weight categories again and erase all records from the Doping Age – Period 3? Hoping that the perfect anti-doping process is near.
Or make a new professional weightlifting federation out of the Olympic movement and WADA authority, with liberal doping rules like American professional leagues?
What do you think?
p.s. Seems the chances for weightlifting to be excluded from the Olympic program have never been higher anyway. Even without the retests of 2008 and 2012 Olympics, the list at http://www.iwf.net/anti-doping/sanctions/ was huge already, with numbers in the hundreds range.
I think that Weightlifting will be out of Olympics for ever. The idea of new weight categories would be great, like a categorie of 120kg could be great for a lot of lifters.
Beijing Olympics weightlifting concluded 8/19/2008 and today is 8/24/2016. Isn’t this technically past the 8 year statute for retrospective disqualifications?
I think the 8 year staute of limitations refers to the actual testing of the samples rather than the consequences of the testing. We are only getting the public disclosure of the failures today but it’s likely that the actual testing took place in June or July.
Actually, it’s currently a 10 year statute of limitations. https://www.wada-ama.org/en/questions-answers/2015-world-anti-doping-code#item-889.
Beijing 2008 Maya MANEZA??? What are you to talk about???
2008?!!!
Yes, looks strange (and honestly I can’t remember anything about the womens competition in Beijing) – but the official source at the Olympics site says she was in the list but did not start (not bombed out or withdrawn during competition but did not start at all):
https://www.olympic.org/beijing-2008/weightlifting/63kg-women
BS
after 3 more minutes google search:
http://www.caravan.kz/gazeta/geroi-olimpiady-52220/
7 августа на тренировке травмировалась Манеза.
http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/kazakhstan-weightlifter-maneza-maya-talks-to-her-team-at-a-news-photo/82200684#kazakhstan-weightlifter-maneza-maya-talks-to-her-team-at-a-training-picture-id82200684
Kazakhstan weightlifter Maneza Maya (L) talks to her team at a training hall of the Beijing University of Aeronautics and Astronautics Gymnasium ahead the 2008 Beijing Olympic Games in Beijing on August 7, 2008
http://www.stiripesurse.ro/rio-2016-weightlifting-bronze-medalist-sincraian-tests-positive-for-illegal-drug_1149151.html
Sincraian busted… 217 kg clean & jerk ????? aaaahaha I was just counting the hours for this….
Marco: Confirmed at
http://www.nineoclock.ro/rio-2016-weightlifting-bronze-medalist-sincraian-tests-positive-for-illegal-drug/
I will not be surprised if about 10 medalists are stripped of their medals by 2024. This is truly sad.
Who is the next lifter “I was just counting the hours for this”?
It is not sad, at all.
I won’t start talking about the “doping free”, “100% clean” bullshit, but when an athlete posts in a competition 173+217 after being dsq for 2 years (2013-2015 OOC stanozolol) and his best before dsq was 169+201 in 2011 (when he was 5 years younger, and 23 not 28!!!!), we are undermining the credibility of this sport.
Was this guy clean at 169+202 ? No of course.
If you look at http://www.iwrp.net at the careers of 80% of lifters you’ll see somewhere in their career there is always a year in which there is a dramatic increase in the kgs/Sinclair they lift, not naturally explainable. Generally in the year they get 18 y.o. (for physiological reasons? IMO for legal consequences in some countries as well…not the case of Kazaks and those countries) . After that in the course of 2-3 years they get busted or they get away with it and they consolidate that level of performance.
I am sorry to disappoint “legalize doping” people, but sport is a matter for true men, HEROES, not drug junkies or freaky Frankenstein doctor human experiments. In this sense we have to forget the last 60 years of competition, archiving them as “another kind of sport”.
I’m open to listen to every opinion on this.
Spot on mate – i’ve followed elite level track and field and weightlifting for 30 years and trained(totally naturally) with an elite level high dose steroid taking IFBB Pro bodybuilder for over a decade during my twenties.
The power of steroids in terms of performance improvement is totally astonishing! It is simply impossible for natural athletes to compete with doped elite level athletes, weightlifters and bodybuilders – its like men against boys!
Official IOC announcement of six 2008 disqualifications: https://www.olympic.org/news/ioc-sanctions-six-athletes-for-failing-anti-doping-tests-at-beijing-2008
Presumably, more to follow. Keep checking at: https://www.olympic.org/news
Official IOC announcement of six 2008 disqualifications: https://www.olympic.org/news/ioc-sanctions-six-athletes-for-failing-anti-doping-tests-at-beijing-2008
Presumably, more to follow. Keep checking at: https://www.olympic.org/news
A long article in line with my long-standing opinion that current anti-doping system is just plain flawed and respectively, unfair and doing more harm than good.
https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/the-drugs-won-the-case-for-ending-the-sports-war-on-doping
A long article in line with my long-standing opinion that current anti-doping system is just plain flawed and respectively, unfair and doing more harm than good.
https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/the-drugs-won-the-case-for-ending-the-sports-war-on-doping
Interesting point … at the end of the month we will see what’s gonna happen with all these dsq
http://www.sportsfeatures.com/olympicsnews/story/52368/neil-wilson-the-cheat-who-may-be-awarded-an-olympic-gold-medal-at-londons-dirty-games
At London 2012, in the Olympic Weightlifting 94Kg Class, the retest results has seen 6 out of the top 7 athletes producing positive results including all three medalists!
The fifth placed athlete has been retrospectively awarded Gold, and the eighth placed Silver. Polish weightlifter Tomasz Zielinski is set to receive the Bronze medal despite finishing ninth – embarrassingly for Olympic officials, he is currently serving a ban himself for an out of competition positive prior to Rio!
“At London 2012, in the Olympic Weightlifting 94Kg Class, the retest results has seen 6 out of the top 7 athletes producing positive results including all three medalists!The fifth placed athlete has been retrospectively awarded Gold, and the eighth placed Silver.”
Head scratching:
Iran, Saeid Mohammadpour, 19 years old in London and proposed gold medalist is 23 years old now and has not participated in any meet after London.
Let me scratch that itch … http://varzeshvideo.com/?p=13727
I think the video is self explanatory.
Saied reacted against Iranian national coach on 2013 and left the team.
Then he got injury at 2016 fajr cup under 191 snatch.
He still needs recovery.
Perhaps in the coming world championship we will see him again and this time in 105
Norik Vardanian – London 2012 – 94 kg class … latest one caught…. seems like there’s going to be no one left in this category…
Ilya Ilyin´s world recods are gone from the 94 kg class now, if you look at http://www.iwf.net/results/world-records/ . They are still left in the 105 kg class though.
The records are a complete mess without a good solution. Taylan, Chinshanlo, etc.
Ha, so Klokov got away scot-free.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mP7BsYW5JU0
Perhaps a very, very late comment on this article, but seeing this world record makes me truly wonder how he has not failed the Rio drug test, although he was previously banned before the 2016 Olympics.
Kazakhs usually don’t get caught on the spot. They usually get stripped 1 or 2 Olympic cycles later. Example: Every single Kazakh gold medalist in weightlifting at the Olympics ever.
“Their bans retroactively start on the date when the reanalysis of took place , namely 26 May 2016. This implies that Maneza and Chinshanlo will be eligible for the 2020 Olympics in Tokyo.”
Are you sure? 1 Olympic ban is life ban from all Olympics. They might be eligible to lift again after 2 years but it should only be at Worlds and Asian comps.
“1 Olympic ban is life ban from all Olympics.”
That rule was proposed, but never implemented. Per example, Ivan Tsikhan competed in Rio (winning silver) after being positive in his 2004 retest.
“That means for example that Zulfiya Chinshanlo’s 134kg clean and jerk world record set at world championships 2014 in Almaty will still stand.”
I do not agree with IWF in this matter. All records from 2012 -14 of athletes caught must be removed IMO.
“Are you sure? 1 Olympic ban is life ban from all Olympics. They might be eligible to lift again after 2 years but it should only be at Worlds and Asian comps.”
Answer is Yes and No! Only Russian were banned from Olympics but other countries did not.